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Re: Nintendo wii

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gravenewworld Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 485 Location:	Date: 2007-01-04 18:15:44 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Tranq, come on man how many times do I have to reiterate, short term stats are useless. You are basing the "demand" of PS3's off 1 month's worth of data?? Only time will tell which company will win this round of the console wars, and I doubt anyone will be able to make a reasonable projection until 2 or 3 years down the road. So there are 3 or 4 wii's to every ps3? so what? remember the dreamcast? it orginally had the record for fastest selling system before the ps2 eventually came around the block...and we all know what happened to the dreamcast and sega. "The Dreamcast enjoyed brisk sales in its first season, and was one of Sega's most successful hardware units. In the United States alone, a record 300,000 units ^[3] had been pre-ordered before launch and Sega sold 500,000 consoles in just two weeks (including 225,000 sold on the first 24 hours which became a video game record). In fact, due to brisk sales and hardware shortages, Sega was unable to fulfill all of the advance orders. Sega confirmed that it made $98.4 million on combined hardware and software sales with the Dreamcast ... The Dreamcast sales grew 156.5% from July 23 to September 30 putting Sega ahead of Nintendo 64 in that period. For the month of November 2000, the Dreamcast passed the Nintendo 64 as the second best selling system. During that time, the PlayStation 2 was plagued by production shortages, with people often paying in excess of $1000 on eBay for Sony's next-generation console. However, the Dreamcast's online capabilities through SegaNet (the PlayStation 2 would not go online until late 2002, well after the Dreamcast's demise), and a price cut around Fall 2000 (which made it half the price of the PS2) did little to help sales once the PlayStation 2 was launched. A key to Sony's relative ease for success with the PlayStation 2 was that they already enjoyed brand-name dominance over Sega after the huge success of the original PlayStation," (from wiki and cited from Game Investor). the wii may have gotten a fast start due to excellent supplies, price, etc. but that does not mean anything in the long term view of things. The dreamcast proves that it isn't about who sprints the fastest out of the gate, but it is all about who wins the marathon. LOL the dreamcast even had a 1.5 year headstart on the PS2 and a 3 year start on the GC and Xbox, and got its ass handed to it. so you say you trust what the "expert" wall street analysts say? you trust the same analysts that lost to a monkey chucking darts randomly at internet stock picks that were pasted on a dart board? LOL the monkey even made a 213% gain on its stock picks, outperforming 6,000 wall street "pros" and became the 22nd best money manager in the entire country!! The monkey quadrupled the performace of teh DOW and double that of Nasdaq. So much for what the "experts" say. So you want another projection from so called experts? Here is something to chew on. http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=92328 ; (which is hopefully a non biased source of gaming news) " Research and Markets has released their prediction that the PS3 will sell 75 million units by 2010, thereby winning "the console war in the long term." And where is this weak demand for ps3's??? America isn't the only country on the earth. http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=91228 "Sales for the week of Dec. 4 to Dec. 10 were a solid 60 percent higher than the week before and that could mean console-maker Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is making good on its promise to increase production of the PlayStation 3. Sales of the console fell for the first three full weeks after launch due to Sony's inability to keep up with demand." there simply isn't enough supply of ps3's to keep up with demand which is why there are many less ps3's being sold. this is yet another reason why short term stats are useless predicting how well ps3 will sell in the long term since there isn't even enough quantity of product to meet the demand. what's even more interesting "The latest Media Create figures also show that it's not just Sony that is grappling with supply issues. Nintendo Co. Ltd., which launched its Wii console in Japan on Dec. 2, saw sales fall fast during its first full week on sale due to low supply. Just over 350,000 units of the Wii were sold during launch but this fell to 85,439 in the week of Dec. 4 to 10, said Media Create." Thats right, you read it correctly the sales of the Wii fell sharply as well, but this is also due to low supplies. The real contest between xbox, wii, and ps3 doesn't begin until every console is able to adequately saturate the market in every corner of the globe. THE ONLY CONCLUSION THAT CAN BE REASONABLY CONCLUDED AFTER ONLY 1 MONTH OF SALES IS THAT THE WII SIMPLY SOLD MORE UNITS BECAUSE THERE WERE MORE UNITS AVAILABLE. Really it isn't that hard to understand, more product available=more product sold. The ONLY reasonable comparison of the wii to the ps3 that you could make at this time would be the rate of sales of both of the consoles which would be how many units sold divided by how many were supplied. I wouldn't doubt that the rate of the sales of both of the systems were close to 100%. http://sis.slowli.com/images/4kv8te.gif
tranqulized Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 2999 Location: somewherenearcleveland	Date: 2007-01-04 20:06:40 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	" Research and Markets has released their prediction that the PS3 will sell 75 million units by 2010, thereby winning "the console war in the long term." Look inside that prediction..... "The abstract for the research does not offer predictions for the installed base of Nintendo's Wii or Microsoft's Xbox 360." How is any of their research that declares sony a winner valid if it doesn't account for its competitions sales? Gamepro is a biased source of information... and your link doesn't work either... Yes theres a lot of random chance in the market.... a monkey throwing darts at some stocks on a dart board vs another guy who predicts market outcome isn't really a valid comparison... its really not so impressive because someone had to put those stocks on the dartboard for the monkey to throw at, and you don't know the details under which those random stocks were picked... or if they were even random at all... you couldn't put all the stocks in the market on 1 board for a monkey to fairly throw at for predictions to compare against a wall street analyst... The predictions they've made have come true so far... These same people predicted that the bulk of the ps3's opening and holiday sales would be people that wanted to sell them on the internet and not people that wanted to play them... This really effects sony's real end user sales figures because theres a lot of ps3's on the internet for sale, that aren't selling... and these morons selling them spent 10 hours in line some where to get his hands on 4 or 5 of them hoping to turn them for a profit... you've got hording in the market, which makes it really difficult to predict what your real end user sales figures are because you don't know how many of those systems sold are to people hording them for the purpose of reselling them... Look on ebay, theres pictures in auctions of like 10 or 12 of them in someones living room.... Theres litterally people out there who made a job out of ps3 hunting and ebay... I know a few of them... I know a guy who had 8 of them in his living room the day after launch because he had them on pre order at damn near every place that sold them.... he took out a bank loan to buy them and turned enough profit to buy a new car.... but the thing is... 5 of those people he sold to on ebay relisted them.... so how many of those peoples sales were to real end users? sonys sales figures are very missleading.. the game sales figures right now don't match the system sales figures. xbox 360's launch had a 1-1 ratio of systems to games sold at launch.... everyone who bought a system, bought atleast 1 game with it.... sony's however is way off.... I think I read around december 15th or so, that for every 3 systems sold only 1 game was being sold... which shows that the real end user market isn't what the sales figures of the system itself are showing... The wallstreet guys factored in the ebayers... but now that the holidays are over, ebay has cooled the fuck down... Most of those systems on there are being relisted quite a few times... The guys in wallstreet also factored in the recent quality control issues at sony being an issue.... http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153458.html The reality of it is, the people at sony were banking on people willing to buy the ps3 no matter what the cost...(some of the people high up at sony have even stated they feel people will buy it no matter what the cost)... Most people across the world don't have an hd house hold to make use of its features to justify the price tag... This is why its a bit apparent they are jumping the gun in the direction they are trying to go... They are trying to target an audience that isn't large enough or may not even exist yet... its like the high end gaming computer market... sure people will buy the ultra high end stuff... but the number of people that do is very small, and is hardly large enough to make the ps3 the top seller... The ps3 only targets people with income enough to purchase all hd equipment... and that target audience isn't very big... LIke you said, its now about who gets good off the line, its about who wins the marathon.... but factor this for your marathon.... figure the target gamer audience as the fuel for said marathon.... the number of people that can currently afford the ps3 and a hd tv to play it on are far far less than the number of people with regular tube tvs or hd tvs that are willing to buy either an xbox or a wii... they've cut the fuel supply for this marathon you speak of... They'll get off the line all right... but they'll run out of gas because of their price tag... I'll support dans comp till bmx companies start selling direct to their customers...
tranqulized Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 2999 Location: somewherenearcleveland	Date: 2007-01-04 20:51:21 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Even with a console shortage.... 10 ps3's up right now for sale and in stock.... http://www.nowinstock.net/ps3/index.php I'll support dans comp till bmx companies start selling direct to their customers...
gravenewworld Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 485 Location:	Date: 2007-01-04 20:55:18 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	"Gamepro is a biased source of information... and your link doesn't work either..." "The guys in wallstreet also factored in the recent quality control issues at sony being an issue.... http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153458.html" LOl the first thing i see when i click on this link the same article that was on gamepro.com that i tried to link to in huge lettering on the right . http://sis.slowli.com/images/4kv8te.gif
socal_rider Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 805 Location: San Diego, SoCal	Date: 2007-01-04 21:11:32 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Hrm...the whole ebay factor. Honestly, I don't blame the PS3 for that, there were valid reasons why they were short in supply. And no, Sony wasn't creating a false demand for the system. You can't blame Sony for the greedy wishes of people in America. It's just capitalism at its worse! Unfortunately, yeah, people bought the PS3 to make a quick buck online and that had an affect with the software sales ratio. But that shouldn't be an indicator of why it sucks. I'm sure if every system were sold to gamers, those software sales would have been better. So using those facts to benefit your arguments has its faults. I read that article about the PS3 winning in 2010 and didn't care much for it. Again, Sony knows it's not going to get back the lead right away. I don't think they expected to. However, they are going to try to push the product in the coming years. You can't deny that people have bought into HDTVs recently. The costs of HDTVs have lowered so much that it's become very affordable to the mainstream market. Expect those consumers to buy into the new technology stuff in time because broadcasting in 1080p won't take off for quite a while. I really do believe the perception of the PS3 will change after the 2nd generation of games come out for it. Even an old coworker of mine who was bashing on the PS3(and Sony in general) for quite some time just told me today through chat that he's waiting on Gran Turismo 5 before getting a PS3. He's an avid racing fan and admits that GT5 looks great and the sole reason he'll buy into it. So if my friend can admit he'd buy one, you know there's a little bit of sunshine for Sony. It's actually funny, he made a little joke about the Wii... "The Wii? As in like wee like pee. No, I think it should be called poo." I found it amusing cause not too long ago, he was even more harsh on Sony. He's a diehard 360 fan too. So it just goes to show, the games that will come out for the PS3 will sell the system. People just need to calm down a bit. MySpace Profile: SoCal Rider
socal_rider Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 805 Location: San Diego, SoCal	Date: 2007-01-04 21:35:30 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Hrm...okay, so they are in stock on the PS3. So is the 360. Does that make the 360 suck too? All it means is that Nintendo is still riding the hype of the Wii. And because it's the most affordable of the bunch, it's more attractive to the parents who wants to give their kids the next hot item. Honestly, most of my friends who are gamers got 360's this year. None really care for the Wii. Does that mean the Wii sucks for the people around me? No, but it could mean that the Wii is still mainly marketted to the younger gamers. Aside from the one we have here at work, and the 1 another coworker owns, no one else I know bought into a Wii. Believe me, I'm surrounded by gamers. But I don't let that affect how I think the Wii will do. For me, I think you have a lot of envious Wii gamers who wishes they could also afford a PS3. But because they can't, they try to belittle the PS3 because somehow or another, it makes them feel better about their purchase. It's a common problem with fanboys...it's a never ending battle because as much as they expect you to hear them out, they aren't willing to hear you out if you have something to say about their beloved consoles. MySpace Profile: SoCal Rider
Elf Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 786 Location: Central PA, USA	Date: 2007-01-05 10:59:50 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Wii Bowling is the best video game ever. I put way more hours into bowling than I did Zelda and Excite Truck combined. Bowling with 4 people is so fun.
Race_Fit Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 802 Location: Brick, NJ	Date: 2007-01-05 13:08:49 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	Sony isn't doing to well with the PS3. For a system that is supposedly such high demand, I can find them everywhere. That justinstock website isn't really relaying how many PS3s are actually out there. A week before Christmas I went into a BestBuy, they rolled out an entire pallet of PS3s, stacked waist high. I went back the next day, and the PS3s were still there, although they were only about knee height. Last week I was walking through the mall and stopped in a game store looking for WRC for PSP and the store owner immediatly tried to sell me one, said he had about 10 of them, and they weren't selling. Yesterday I went to my local GameStop of choice, where I talk with the guys there quite a bit. They said they had gotten in about 20 of them 2 weeks ago, and 15 of them were still remaining, and they were expecting more in. I don't think its the price that is killing the PS3, because in all honesty, for a computer that lasts 5 years with consistent game suppourt, $600 is pennies compared to the near $10,000 a computer gamer would go through in the same 5 years keeping up with games. PS3 games suck, end of story. PS3 games that are on the horizon suck as well, and its all the same old shit. I read on the OPM cover that the upcoming Metal Gear game will be the best Metal Gear ever. So what? Splinter Cell surpassed Metal Gear about 2 1/2 years ago. They are beating a dead franchise. Not to mention PS3 is losing more exclusives to X360 everyday. Why? People already own a 360, 360 games buy the games that come out, and their is a large demand and established base there. PS3 owners number in about 250,000 in America, and it isn't much prettier anywhere else. The systems are available for purchase, people just don't want them. The PS3 has nothing to look foward to game wise. And please don't say Resistance: Fall of Man. I've already played Half-Life 2, it came out 3 years ago. There is nothing new and inventive about that game, and people know and see this. MotorStorm is just the PS3 version of a PS2 launch game, called Smuggler's Run. Not to mention there are so many graphical problems in that game its not even funny. X360 catches shit for having screen tearing occasionally in cut-scenes, PS3 should be stoned for having games that continously tear as your playing the game, not to mention shading that jumps around like a Jack Russel Terrior. PS3 is not faring to well right now. Maybe in a year or so it will pick up, if, IF, the few exclusive games for the system are actually good, like LAIR. And no, I am not bitter I can't afford one, I have enough money in cash on me right now to go out and buy one.
tranqulized Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 2999 Location: somewherenearcleveland	Date: 2007-01-05 13:39:12 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	I don't know what happened to the game spot article I posted last night.... but that was not it... im not sure if one of the mods changed my link or the forums buggy as shit... but that was not the link I posted.... the xbox 360 is going to be in stock no matter how much of them they sell due to the massive headstart.... theres more quantity available than people willing to buy it right now.... and the xbox360 was the top holiday seller of the new systems with out shortages.... well, see the thing is with the sales ratio, the games still aren't selling after the holiday ebay nightmare... The systems aren't selling very fast anymore now that the holidays are over... the ps3's sales figures are highly distorted because how many of those people buying the system in store were buying it to sell it on ebay, and how many of those people buying it on ebay were buying it to use it or resell it... Look on ebay, right now, theres ps3's selling for less than what they go for at the store with no bids on them... No one wants it now because the holiday rush isn't there to help them turn a profit and now its selling for what ever... The games wont sell if the systems wont... I do not in any way shape or form envy people who can afford a ps3... I can afford a ps3 and an hd tv and a lot more.. trust me... I make money off of what the wallstreet analysts say.... the wallstreet journal is a valuable investment tool... and its made me more money than most of the people in this forum have made in years... I more or less pitty people who bought that crap... its an overpriced turd as far as im concerned.... why pay all that extra money for fancy features your never going to get to see used or wont be used till the systems out dated for that matter? for the image quality improvement over a wii, it sure doesn't double the quality for almost triple the price... You know why sony did that? because they know they can bend you over the table no matter what the price and sell you stuff you'll never use, and you'll take it and ask for more..... more or less... Im not one of those "suckers born every minute".... I laugh at people like that... I don't envy them... I don't know about you... but $600 is not worth the price of playing video games... the games are not that good that I would fork out $600-700 just to play it... The general public is not as gullible as sony thinks... id say most of sonys user base is not in the "fanboy" category... and I doubt most of america is going to be like "wow its $600, I'll buy that just because its expensive"... " Oh boy 8 cores(7 actually, sony intentionally crippled 1 core as to get higher yeilds out of the processor so your really getting an incomplete product)! most of which will sit dormant for the entire lifecycle of the unit! Hurray! I paid so much extra cash for something thats never gonna get used! Don't I feel like a tool who got sold a used car for the price of a new one, that doesn't even run! " seriously, think about how much its going to cost you per hour to play that thing vs a nintendo or an xbox? your going to be almost playing arcade prices... they might as well give you the ps3, but have a coin slot on the side of it... Are video games that important to your life that you would pay over $3,000 to play it as it was meant to be played?? What I think sony is doing here is not being consumer friendly... what they are doing with the ps3 is making fun of capitolist americans... some guy from sony is probly sitting in a chair some where watching video of you standing in the cold next to your tent eating a hot dog, laughing that your willing to go through all that just to be the first on your block to have one and paying 3x the competitions price to do it... See whats going to happen here is, some people will pay the $600 now... but should the ps4 come out... its going to be $2000..... and you'll buy it... cause your gullible....thats all sony is out to prove with the ps3... they are testing the gullibility of the market... Video games are not that important to anyones life that they would spend that kind of money just to play it.... Don't get me wrong I like video games, and at one point I could say video games were my life during my 14-17 years... but damn... If you take video games that seriously that your willing to spend a car payment on them... you must not care about the rest life has to offer... like getting laid... a job... a bike... friends... shit... theres not enough losers in the world like that to bring sony to the top man... a $600 price tag is for people who make their life playing video games... its not for the majority of gamers... Theres better ways to spend your money... especially since the system is unlikely to last the 5-6 years till a new one comes out... Shit for $250 now... if it breaks, I can afford to replace it 2 years from now when its cheaper... Sony isn't going to be bringing the price down anytime soon... they can't afford it... and bringing it down to 400-500 isn't going to help much when the competitions brought down to $200 or 300.... Sony put too much false hype into the system... and the pr for sony is only fooling themselves... That comment the one guy made about how "the europeans don't mind waiting another year" for the ps3 to come out there... im sure that pissed some people off... and they've gotten a bit cocky... I mean... do you feel fine knowing that the guys at sony say that you will buy it no matter what the cost? are you fine with being the guinni pig for future price gouging? I'll support dans comp till bmx companies start selling direct to their customers...
socal_rider Joined: A long time ago... Posts: 805 Location: San Diego, SoCal	Date: 2007-01-05 13:54:01 Topic: Re: Nintendo wii
	LOL! Damn Brian...you make it sound like anyone who bought a PS3 is a loser with no direction in life but to play games. Fortunately for me, video games is a big part of my life right now...why wouldn't it be? I make games for a living. Yes, I'm such a loser because I have a girlfriend, kids to take care of, a home I own, just bought a new car, maintaining my life style, bought very expensive bike parts, have many hobbies that are equally, if not more expensive that my video game hobby(paintball)...yes, I am such a loser. Wow...I feel so low for buying into all the Sony crap. Good thing all the sony crap I buy is a tax write off. Edit: And to take a stab at MS, yes, people like to buy $400 video game machines that break down so quickly. And to find out they need to spend an extra $65 to get it replaced. Good thing they extended that warranty to 1 year cause it shows so much faith in the durability of their hardware. MySpace Profile: SoCal Rider
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