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Re: Tobacco Companies vs Global Warming posted on 2006-09-22 23:19:09

the sea level curve looks just like the atmospheric temperature curve, overall its increasing, but their are bumps in the line. overall over the past 200 years the sea level has incerased, but over say the past three years its very possible that it has been decreasing with the ocean temp.

thats the whole arguement, that the earth may very well be getting warm on its own. It is getting warmer, but the question is; are we affecting this increase at all or is it all natural?

this article is suggesting that Global warming research that says global warming isn't man made is just there because people are paying for the research. Like your article, most scientists are suggesting that these variations in ocean and atmospheric temp could very well be due to human activities, and a lot of studies say they are, are they contrary studies just there because exxon payed for them? or are they lagit?

Re: Tobacco Companies vs Global Warming posted on 2006-09-22 13:36:20

^ the article you posted is not necassiraly showing that big tobacco is funding studies for global warming, but it is saying that big tobacco is funding the same research groups that were funded by exxon to give them studies saying fossil fuels have nothing to do with global warming. Tobacco companies used these research groups to get studies showing that second hand smoke we not dangerous, and exxon used them to do studies on fossil fuels. This article is supposed to show that like exxon basically took a page out of tobacco's book. Giving research groups a rediculous amount of money to conduct studies that will contradict or prove other studies wrong.
They are saying that the exxon-global warming studies were sparked by the tobacco-second hand smoke research process. It casts major doubt on the researches funded by these companies, and i bet if/when carbondioxide emission is compared to the smoking population big tobacco will refund these researches to say that tobaccos are not bad for the atmosphere, or the environment in anway.

Re: Tobacco Companies vs Global Warming posted on 2006-09-22 12:29:23

actually that aligns with what most global warming specialists are saying:
The earth is getting warmer
glaciers are melting
partially due to burning of fossil fuels, and other "human induced" reasons

over the past 3 years there has been a rapid cooling of the ocean, while the big picture is warming. And they are saying they dont know why this rapid cooling has accured.
The other article you read is correct according to this article also. The ocean is warmer now then it was 20 years ago.
This article in a nutshell is saying that global warming is not a perfectly linear line, instead it has bumps in it.

like shit:
[img]http://supak.com/end/warming_graph.gif[/img]
see how the graph overall has the temperature increasing, but you can take say 5-10 years of that and there may be very rapid cooling going on. They are saying the ocean has been in one of those small dips for the past 3 years, but the overall picture still points to a warming trend.

back to cigarettes: they contain things like ammonia, formaldehyde,acetone, carbon monoxide and arsenic. I agree with tranq that these things probably kill land quality not only around landfills, but anywhere people regulary throw their cigarette butts. But also carbon monoxide is greenhouse gas, a weak one, but one none the less. The carbon monoxide along with the studies showing increased levels of carbon dioxide due to cigarette smoke is enough for big tobacco to take a stand saying global warming does not exist, and therefore saying that their tobacco has nothing to do with global warming.

Re: Tobacco Companies vs Global Warming posted on 2006-09-21 16:38:42

Animal testing has shown that smoking cigarettes may produce a higher concentration of carbon dioxide. In other words burning tobacco results in carbon dioxide in the air. So to cover those claims big tobacco is probably making sure that poeple dont think that this increase in carbon dioxide will have anythign to do with greenhouse gases increasing global warming.Same way exon doesn't want people to think car emmisions do to their oil causes global warming.

Re: Tobacco Companies vs Global Warming posted on 2006-09-21 13:11:49

Global warming is deffinilty a bit touchy. Most scientist will agree that the earth has been warming for a long time. Its statistics, the Earth is warming,but they all disagree on what is causing it.
scientists are on population, pollution, industrialization, and natural cuases. Even though we dont know for sure what is causing the warming the fact is that any one of these could be causes. And these possibilities should lead away from [i]possibly[/i] causing global warming. Its "[i]possible[/i]" that our industry is causing global warming, so their are regulation to prevent emmisions. Our cars [i]may[/i] be causing global warming, our Pollution may also be a cause. Since these things could be a cause we should be better safe then sorry and attempt to correct what we can just in case.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-20 17:19:29

Tranq is just one of those poeple who is so polluted into this world of evil government that it is his lifestyle. Everything that happens has to be negative towards the government, Nothing about it is good. If you say something that the government did that was good he would find a way to make it look bad. He is a completely ignorant, uneducated, rebellious teen tuck in a what it think may be an adult body. Get past 18 and learn how things work you fool. Reality is here waiting for you, come and join it when you feel comfertable.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-20 16:21:06

SO you are telling me that the US governemtn not only fooled the US public, but also was able to fool the entire middle east population into thinking that their countries helped attack us. Like they fooled the citizens of aghanistan into thinking they attacked us? Thats not far fetched to you?

the only reason you dont think we are safer is because you think the US attacked itself, if you get your head out of your buthole and realize that we were actually attacked by someone you will realize that Iraq was set as a battfield to attract the fighting away from US soil. they all migrate to iraq to fight us instead of coming to the US.

Basically there is the right wing, the left wing, and then people like you that the lefties watched jump off the left side of the earth. You are like the appitomy of paranoid, uneducated, rebellious youth. The only problem is that you are actually older then 18 and still believe that the US government rules your life and is looking in your window through the bushes. COME BACK TO REALITY.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-20 13:24:25

first off Sheehan was arrested because SHE BROKE THE LAW. its illegal to demonstrate in the galleries. She could have have an anti abortion shirt, a Chad can suck nuts shirt...she still would have been kicked out. Did you know that someone else was asked to leave for wearing a "support our troops shirt"...but yea they must be singling out and arresting people for their views on iraq. If you think that she was arrested for her views, you are rediculous...as much of your views are.

i read the article about chavez situation. do you think its a coincidence that probably the biggest Bush opposers embraces a story that would make the US look aweful. The one and only leader to embrace this story is chavez. He is so against america he would do whatever he could to create as much anti american sentiment in his country. and that is just what he is doing. Iran isn't our ally, and they know that terrorists attacked our buildings. Aghanistan knows that terrrorists attacked our buildings....we even have a guy who takes responsibility for it. Syria...not suggesting we did it to ourselves either. If you can think clearly for a few moments you will realize that its because they are all allies against us, and know that the middle east kicked our ass that day, and they are all very proud of it. You dont think that if the US pulled this shit on itselft that they wouldn't go "stupid fucks, they did it to themselves" they would be screaming that at the top of their lungs to show we dont belong in the middle east. But instead every september 11 people chear in the streets, and are proud of our towers falling. Not because we did it to ourselves, but because they beat the big guy.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-20 04:44:32

sorry propogandamatrix.com is such a good source, im glad thats where you get all your news.
Edit: this guy is just fueling his hatred for america, trying to spread this story to gain more anti american sentiment in his country.
[url]http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_Venezuelas_Chavez_says_Bush_planned_0913.html[/url]

bottom line, you are aparanoid, and base your views on the thoughts that the government owns you. Althought nobody in 911 movement has had any run in with the government, and gues what....YOU ARN"T EITHER. You are not being watched for what you type on pedalbmx or what you sy in every phone call. The fbi is listenening to you every time you pick up the phone? they are on pbmx.com watching for poeple to disagree with them? and then they find you and take you away? yeah OK thats believable.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-19 22:20:16

^ thanks for showing that you think that the governent controlling you is an "undeniable fact". Its more of an opion based on paranoia. Its more paranoia if you think that you are going to talk on the phone and get the government at your house in 5 minutes. Why dont you try it so you can have a first hand story?

you arn't above society man, you dont know anything that anybody else doesn't. you have a paranoid though about how government and the world works. How come no other country has had that 9/11 was done by the US in their media. how come the middle east doesn't say we did it to ourselves? The US media must control every countries media. of course what am i think? the US controls every media, every country, and everything any country reports. do us a favor and get over yourself.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-19 21:47:07

oui, i think that in their head they believe that the US is so powerful, so indestructable that nobody but the US its self can bring itself down. They simply dont think attacks happen on us because we are too powerful for that.

the pure fact of it is that the conspiracy arguement is based on one underlieing arguement, and that is that the government has the ability to do absolutely anything they want, they have unlimited resources, and have the ability to control anybody they please.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-19 16:35:53

There is no evidence that you will take as "proof". We can argue whatever we want, and there is nothing that will change your mind. Giving you "proof" is useless because you guys are aparently smarter then a majority of scientists and specialists. You attack just as much as people who appose you do. Lines like "why dont the brainwashed bla bla bla" its implying that you guys are above society, like you guys are so damn smart, so much smarter then a majority of specialsists in any field that appose you. Give us all a break and get over yourself. you dont have any giant secrets, and you dont know more then "the brainwashed" public.

None of this is a desperate weak attack, its aimed at pointing out your ignorance, showing that you guys are not some intelect above all others. You guys are like the kid saying 2+2=5, you are just too ignorant to listen to the kid saying the answer is 4.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-19 14:17:43

You guys leave yourself open for attack by looking completely ignorant to anything anybody says to you.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-18 10:51:19

[quote author=Oui link=topic=20122.msg221742#msg221742 date=1158591544]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3143048862360929736&q=penn+and+teller+bullshit

Might wanna check this out too guyz.
[/quote]

there is not one thing you can show them to convince them or get them to realize they are wrong.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-14 19:41:23

^ did you read it? i dont think you answered the question.

i just read a very long, but very informative interview with the loose change guy
[url]http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/911avery.html[/url]
If you bring anything out of this article take out that he basically says that none of his video is fact, just speculation, he just wanted to give answer rather then just bring up questions. He doesn't want anything in his video to be thought of fact. that was a very telling interview. spend the hour to read it, its really good.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-14 14:30:56

[quote author=tranqulized link=topic=20122.msg220840#msg220840 date=1158261324]
IF you could make a building fall like that with out all the explosives, why the hell would people need to use them?
[/quote]
because not every building seomeone wasnt demolished can be hit by an airplane.

after all of this talk i have realized one question that should have been asked when the first 911 subject was ever posted on here.

How many people on here have read the 9-11 commision report?

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-14 09:57:11

[quote author=Oui link=topic=20122.msg220738#msg220738 date=1158230981]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rT8GwBe5cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4zQ5JNfPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXwXXX8Gxvk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvHEgjtM21g
[/quote]

That shows the utter disregard of even wanting new evidence. They dont want new evidence, they just want to repeat the same thing they have said over and over. In my opinion the two guys made themselves look like fools.Anytime there was evidence that didn't support one of their arguements, or anytime that it disproved their arguement, it was a Lie, a stone cold lie. "im not saying its a lie, im a saying you are a lier" a strait up attack on someone who apposes his view. that really showed their true colors.The complete disregard of facts, showing they dont care what facts there are because they are set in their ways,and most importantly the affermation that people are liars if they appose the 911 movement. Also notice that once they couldn't explain something that their story got so broad. it encompased the DOT,NYFD and any other groups that have access to the towers. They did not even rebudte many of the points brought up by pm, instead they reasserted what they have been saying for 5 years. They only had an arguement that moved away from physical evidence and used only political skeptisism.

Those guys must know what they are talking about because everyone who disagrees is a liar!

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-12 20:31:23

First off, tranq that is the craziest paranoia...if something happens to you then i may take that seriously, untill then i have to say thats the most ludacris thing i have ever heard.

nick: its doesn't have anything to do with your age. It just adds to the description of joe schmo New York doesn't know what happened. you dont know, i dont know, whoever doens't know. You dont know a plane didn't hit the pentagon. i dont care how 100% sure you say you are. Not seeing something happen doens't mean it didn't happen. its the same thing to say you cant prove it didn't hit the pentagon. so how is your 100% certain different from the dude who is saying he is 100% certain it hit. you cant have both sides be right.

Polls show people think they government new about the attacks ahead of time. This could mean that the government was threatened in 1995 and failed to raise security levels over the proceeding years. did the poles ask "did a plane hit the pentagon: yes/no" or "Was 9/11 and inside job". who did they survey, did they survey the 9/11 movement group, or did they survey 70 year old veterans.

im not out to prove you wrong. the way you stand on the subject nobody can prove you wrong. the same way nobody can win that cool mil because the guy will never admit anything as evidence. You have become so ignorant to the situation that you will never be proven wrong. Somebody will give you evidence and you will throw it away because it was on TV, or because it was by a governement funded company, or because "its been debunked by joe schmo internet researcher"

one day it will hit you that researching something on the internet does not teach you the truth on anything. you will never know 100% that a plane did not hit the pentagon. One day this 911 conspiracy thing will be like the moon landing hoax, it will have a yearly spot on fox where they show an hour special where people can giggle about it, and say "how can people think we cant go to the moon" and you know what that is? its the last of the people capitalizing on the conspiracy theories because its a market, and money is what its about.they sell you something, you buy into and continue to buy their movies, and books.

Realize that you havn't found the great government lie of the past century, because people found that with the JFK shooting, they found it with the moon landing, they found it with the government weather machines, and they found it in the fake holocaust. This 911 thing is part of that trend. it will fade away and people will hear about it every so often and read a little about it, then not care cause it turns out to be silly. or they will buy into one of them, then move onto all the others. like you bought into 911..now how many are you into. pearl harbor?jfk? the moon landing? are they all hoaxes.

Im also not saying you are crazy at all, im saying that you have bought into something. You should realize that. Conspiracy theories is a market. Books Tshirts, whatever and you have contributed 5$,10$,15$? payed 15$ for the "Tuth" for the giant "US government Lie of the cetury." but you havn't noticed that 5 years after it happened this giant lie of the century is thought true by so many poeple, but nobody has done anything to affect america in any way. Its all recycled stories, information, and data that recirculates through the internet, and never gets anywhere by anybody. it feeds the 9/11 movements need for information, but is useless in any other situation besides reading. It has no content, it has no meaning.

You have read the same articles 100 times. notice how none of them have made any change.... if they arn't convincing enough to make change outside the internet movement, they are basically written for you the movement. its to feed your feelings, keep them going, keep you part of the movement, they are not to make a widespread uproar of societ against the government because everyone knows thats not going to happen. Instead they keep you in the market, bank off of their website hits, their t-shirts, and videoes.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-12 16:10:33

Nick last i checked you are the one with the burdon of proof on your shoulders. you are acting like the world needs to prove something to you. For your view to be thought of as true you have to be the one proving it to others. Untill you can prove these things to the general public you are the one stuck in a hole by yourself. Trying to prove my point of view is useless, you are the one with the counter arguement to society.

have you ever wundered why 5 years later the masses have no risen up, why they havn't done jack, why No other countries have done jack...Its because thery were all payed off right? how about because its all bunk, its a useless waist of time because everyone knows that you bought into a conspiracy market where you will buy their videos and buy their books. The marketers are making cash off the fact that you think you know something that everyone else in the world is just so god damn stupid to realize. Dont you think if a 20 year old kid who can do reasearch on the internet can find the big top secret lies behind the governmemt that ANYBODY in the wold can find it. Just realize that poeple have this thing called common sense..

You are not smarter or dumber then anybody else, everyone buys into something..conspircy is a market. you are a part of it, the burdon of proof is on the 9/11 movement, and its apparent they dont have sufficient evidence to convice the masses of their clames. so instead of this becoming a giant breakthrough it circulates in circles on the internet and the same people read this stuff and live by it, seperate themselves from mainstream media because its part of the conspiracy, seperate themselves from anything that contradicts it. I have read every single article you or trank or anybody has posted on this forum on the subject along with countless others. if you read Both sides of everything its not hard to come to a conclusion that the poeple writting these conspiracy webpages and making movies want something from you. they are all selling books, videos, t-shirts. Cashing in on the conspiracy. they did a good job.

realize how you have seperated yourself from any opposition, realize that the burdon of truth is on the 9/11 movement not society, and do the whole world a favor and give evidence that a missle hit the pentagon. give such clear evidence that is so impossible to refute that the masses have no choice but to rise up in anger against the government. Untill you can do that you are stuck in your hole talking the same old thing to the same old people who do that same thing as you, and talk to eachother, and block out every view that is different. Then maybe one day you will go to speak out and the government will pay you off!! how great woudl that be.

Re: See what happens when you speak your mind in this country! posted on 2006-09-12 09:55:50

You dont realize its not about how it fell, the physics of it, all that jazz. Its very easy to say you arn't specialized in any field that allows you to make conclusions on this shit, neither am i, neither is tranq, or oui. The point is the shear rediculousness of the reality you have created for yourself. You are 100% sure a plane didn't hit the pentagon...based on pictures? what other people with the same view as your said? a gut instinct? ignoring the people who say it was a plane? the situation can be debated either way. thats not the point. the point is that you have eliminated any counter arguement from your way of thinking leaving you in a reality in which you are right, and only you are right. does that make sense to live in a place like that? where you make up what is right or wrong based on webpages, biased reports, and instinct? You throw away anything you think is wrong because it doesn't satisfy you.You are past the point of listening to people with a counter point. You think they are wrong before they speak because they have a different view. You just throw everything away. Hell the news doesn't satisfy you, so you can throw away TV as a source of anykind. somebody says something about he TV, and you throw it away as unreliable. If someone says something about the internet, its not reliable to you unless its from somebody with your point of view.

think about this realistically. a 20 year old kid from Co, or a guy from Il, wich no practical experience of any kind knows the truth about the world, and nobody else does? Like you are some kind of prophet that just KNOWS the world better than anybody else, like you are special in some way above the normal society. Reading on the internet has made you above society, like you are lookin down on it and not part of it.

realize what you are doing to form your reality, you are throwing away everything untill you are left with only your own opion, and nobody elses. everybody elses is thrown away as unreliable because it does not support you. Do me a favor and open your minds a little bit. You have narrowed them down to little more then a pin hole in an infinate universe.

just to add it in. THe top of the building would have to sway 100ft to move the buildings centroid. fi the centroid is in the middle(hasn't swayed 100ft) it has nowhere to fall but strait down +- 100feet.

but im not arguing the useless physical arguements..just saying something that maybe you can research and learn a little more on.

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